<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Asa,<div><br></div><div>I have copied both lists since this discussion thread applies to both projects.</div><div><br></div><div>I think we should avoid the use of Liberty or Open Liberty, or Open. Since the parent organization is OpenLiberty, reusing the name Liberty, OpenLiberty, or even Open in the "product" or "project" name causes repitition. E.g. OpenLiberty OpenWSF seems a little redundant.</div><div><br></div><div><div apple-content-edited="true"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div>Looking at the WSF stuff you are building, it is a lot bigger than I first thought. I thought it was just the client! </div><div><br></div><div>Leaving the development language issue aside, it almost looks like you are building a "WSF Toolkit" and re-packing it into a couple of open source products (e.g. WSF Client, WSF Server).</div><div><br></div><div>I'd almost go for WSF-J Toolkit (for people re-using the code), WSF-J Client and WSF-J Server for customers deploying as final products.</div><div><br></div><div>That still seems a little dry. Going back to Chuck Mortimore's comment about customers buy houses and not plumbing, I'd look for a higher level name. I'm not sure if this is any better, but how about Trust Fed. So the full name would be something like:</div><div>openLiberty TrustFed-J ToolKit</div><div>openLiberty TrustFed-J AppKit</div><div>openLIberty TrustFed-J ProviderKit</div><div><br></div><div>That said, now that I have typed it out, "TrustFed" seems a little dry. I'd still like to see something a little open source like. Project Panda or something goofy like that. ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>Phil Hunt</div><div>Oracle</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div></span> </div><div><br><html>Begin forwarded message:</html><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>From: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Asa Hardcastle <<a href="mailto:asa.openliberty@zenn.net">asa.openliberty@zenn.net</a>></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Date: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">March 20, 2008 12:51:59 PM PDT (CA)</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>To: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Phil Hunt <<a href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a>></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Cc: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">PRATEEK MISHRA <<a href="mailto:prateek.mishra@oracle.com">prateek.mishra@oracle.com</a>></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Subject: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica"><b>Re: Naming of WSF and IGF</b></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> </div>Good idea Phil. Here is a start from me:<br><br>An open source ID-WSF 2.0 implementation.<br><br>Objectives:<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>* a complete XML tooling of the entire ID-WSF 2.0 specifications including ID-SIS<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>* a client library that enables any application to easily take part in an existing ID-WSF environment<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>* a basic ID-WSF WSP along with libraries that are the basis for creating new ID-WSF services (Conor's work, Sampo's work)<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>* a pattern that enables the establishment of an ID-SIS based or ID-WSF based service clients<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>* providing multiple software language versions of the above (to date we have java WSP, java WSC client lib, C based WSP and WSC)<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>* sample service and service consumer applications<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>* a running and available ID-WSF environment for the purposes of learning and testing<br><br>That said, I'd like to bring the naming discussion back onto the wsf list.<br><br>Could the two of you join the id-wsf list temporarily so we can do this together?<br><br><a href="http://lists.openliberty.org/mailman/listinfo/wsf-dev_lists.openliberty.org">http://lists.openliberty.org/mailman/listinfo/wsf-dev_lists.openliberty.org</a><br><br>Maybe the use of "Liberty" could work:<br><br>LibertyIGF<br>LibertyWSF<br><br>LFrameIGF/J<br>LFrameWSF/J<br><br><br>talk soon,<br><br>asa<br><br>--<br>Asa Hardcastle, Technical Lead, openLiberty ID-WSF ClientLib<br>Tel: +1.413.429.1044 Skype: subsystem7<br><br>On Mar 20, 2008, at 11:46 AM, Phil Hunt wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">I've been thinking about this naming business. Before we name something, it would be nice to describe what are the "products" we are building in open source.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">For example, my understanding is that you are building the libraries a RP can use to participate in an ID-WSF system correct? Or better, how would you describe it.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">For my part, in order to demonstrate the use of IGF, I actually have to create, and then use declarations across a set of protocols. So I'm building an attribute services API kinda like JNDI or JDBC that allows the developers to access data. However because of the benefits of pre-declaration, we can leave configuration out of the application code. So probably the key cool benefit of the new API is abstraction. So if I were to describe the IGF Attr Svc API as a product I would say it:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">* An API using layered architecture that allowing applications to access data via multiple protocols (LDAP, SAML, ID-WSF, WS-Fed, etc) without having to set special parameters for those protocol implementations at compile time. Individual protocols are configured exclusively at deployment time.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">* Allows use of standardized and industry vertical schemas<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">* Declarative API allows service providers to understand data and transaction requirements of an application -- a very generic client WSDL if you like.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">* Declarative API allows for easier Privacy Impact Assessments.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">We could also run through some other thought exercises...but starting with the qualities of our products might be a good place.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Phil Hunt<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Oracle<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>